[Gucki]

Hello Gerard,

nice that you have found us. Welcome!

This  forum has kindly set up a little physics asylum for us. The guys all speak English.

Because I'm currently playing around with piezos in another physics project, I had the idea that this could possibly be used for the measurements you need.

Charges are “built into” a piezo in such a way that they cannot be measured from the outside. However, if the piezo is subjected to pressure, the charge balance is disturbed and a voltage is measured. 

If you mount a seismic mass on such a piezo, you can use it to measure forces. In your case, “F = m a”, i.e. acceleration or gravity. However, this is conventional and our “Plan B” if “Plan A” fails.

“Plan A” is more exciting! Gravity bends space (and time). Gravity changes the shape of the piezo. Since charges are absolute, the piezo voltage allows conclusions to be drawn about gravity at close range. In other words, a relativistic measurement!

The principle made a good impression in the screening. However, I cannot yet promise that this approach will lead to success. It is new territory. As far as I know, space curvature has never been measured in this way before.

So we have real development work to do. You as a theorist. And I as the experimenter. And anyone who finds us here (or is already here) is welcome to join in.

The goal is to achieve the measurement required in your paper:

https://vixra.org/abs/2502.0133

If we develop a new measurement method along the way, that would be perfect.

Best regards

Wolfgang

[Gucki]

Hi Gerard,

the admin said that he doesn't need to activate anyone. So you should be able to post. 

Just try again.


Best regards

Wolfgang

[Gerard van der Ham]

Hi wolfgang,
I think it will succeed.
Today I have been calculating. The gravitational forces are extremely small. I can't see how they could be measured by piezo's. I think the torsion balance is the best option. But that is going o look like a repeat of the experiment of Cavendish.
I have to work more on this. And I am very interested in your work on this.

Gerard

[Gucki]

Hello Gerard,

I'll have more time this weekend. I hope that I will be able to show the first measurements then.

Best regards

Wolfgang

[Gucki]

Hi Gerard,

now I'm all here for your project!

First I want to try to get a massive piezo to oscillate. This corresponds in principle to your pendulum. Only “solid state” and with a higher frequency.

Then I want to measure this oscillation frequency as precisely as possible. An electronic image of an interferometric evaluation, so to speak.

If this does not provide sufficient sensitivity, I will couple an oscillating mass with the piezo. If that's still not enough, we'll have to think again.

At least that's my plan so far. Do you agree?

Best regards

Wolfgang

[Gucki]

Hi Gerard,

I simply connected the piezo ceramic to a measuring device:

   

and placed my heavy vacuum pump in the case on a turntable in front of it:

   

The following frequency is measured:

   

The case is then rotated by 90°:

   

And the frequency changes significantly:


   

Of course, this still needs to be checked for faults. It is conceivable that the piezo reacts to the changed stray capacitance.

The piezo may have to be placed in a shielded housing. And then series of measurements must be made. 

But in principle, that's actually the way I have in mind. So - if everything works out - I can finally tell you the oscillation frequencies of the piezo as a function of the angle of rotation of a heavy mass.

Would that be enough for you?

Best regards

Wolfgang

[alfsch]

(14.03.2025, 10:32 AM)Gucki schrieb: And the frequency changes significantly:




Of course, this still needs to be checked for faults. It is conceivable that the piezo reacts to the changed stray capacitance.

The piezo may have to be placed in a shielded housing. And then series of measurements must be made. 

Wolfgang

So you checked the tuning by stray capacitance now - fine !

Better:
Just use a standard crystal, maybe 1 MHz, in a metal can HC-18 (-> grounded !) , then try again. 



-- and screen connecting wires also !!!
ANY changing stray capacitance will change frequency - thats the standard way, to tune crystal oscillators.

[Gucki]

First, let's wait and see if Gerard can do anything with this kind of result.

Small quartz crystals are bad. The space curvature is minimal. We need large quartz crystals.

[alfsch]

(14.03.2025, 12:18 PM)Gucki schrieb: First, let's wait and see if Gerard can do anything with this kind of result.

Ah, a test :
Finding out your basic error , from the changed stray capacitance ? 

+
big:


https://shop.griederbauteile.ch/product_...anguage=en

[Gucki]

A quartz certainly does not react to space curvature. It has to be a piezo. There is a chance.

[alfsch]

(14.03.2025, 03:27 PM)Gucki schrieb: A quartz certainly does not react to space curvature. It has to be a piezo. There is a chance.

So piezo is not piezo , because SiO2 vs Bariumtitanat (BTO) oder Blei-Zirkonat-Titanat (PZT) ??

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelektrizit%C3%A4t



+
not much smaller, than your piezo:

[Gucki]

Yes, and they are all isolators.

-----------

Quartz crystals are optimized for frequency stability. That's exactly what I don't want.

I need ceramics whose resonant frequency(s) jump back and forth wildly when they are subjected to pressure.

[Gerard van der Ham]

Wolfgang,
I admire your enthousiasm. I know (almost) nothing about electronic devices. Do I understand correctly that the vacuum pump in the case on a turn table is the source of the frequency? I am afraid that its waight is much to little. Maybe a iron cylinder of several nundreds of kilo's is needed. And a heavy lead block attached to the piezo crystal. I wonder very much how sensitive piezo's are. Can they perceive forces as small as a micro gram (or even smaller)? I am very curious to your results.

Gerard

[Gucki]

Hello Gerard,

I realize that you had much heavier weights in mind. But then I would have to sit on the turntable myself....

The basic idea is to measure the curvature of space directly. In other words, that the piezo oscillation frequency changes depending on the gravity acting on it.

The experiments can take months and end in failure. We are breaking new ground. Nobody knows what to expect. The adventure land of physics.

Best regards

Wolfgang

[Gucki]

No deterioration or improvement with a screen.

   

[Gucki]

Today I'm going to take a closer look at the various resonances of my piezo.

---

Parallel I made an electromechanical representation of Gerard's pendulum. A microcontroller measures the closing time of a relay connected to a seismic mass with a linear increase in relay current. The supply is 24V and the output is PWM.

   

The sensor works without any problems and is interference-free. However, I don't yet know whether the sensitivity is sufficient. Maybe I really need to lie in front of it lengthwise and crosswise to carry out the experiment.

---

And if all fails, we can run around a truck full of sand:

Microgravity Radar, viXra.org e-Print archive, viXra:2304.0173

Or if it has to be 6 decades more sensitive:

Measurement of Picoforces from Light, viXra.org e-Print archive, viXra:2110.0011

However, I still have to think about how to connect the mic to a seismic mass and how to rotate the test object at 20Hz without danger.

---

But today I'll play with piezos. That's more advanced,

Wolfgang

[Gucki]

Hi Gerard,

the longer I think about it, the more I have the feeling that the measurement problem has already been solved!

The procedure described here....

Microgravity Radar, viXra.org e-Print archive, viXra:2304.0173

....only needs to be modified slightly. 

You need a cheap scale, as described in the paper (~ € 15 at eBay etc.), a spirit level and a stand-alone cuboid tower block. The tower block simulates a galaxy.

Then you simply walk around the house with the scale and use the spirit level for horizontal alignment. So the house does not rotate. Instead, you rotate around the house. The scale points to the center of the house for all measurements.

Then you transfer the data to Excel and see the gravity profile of the house.

That's it. Good idea?

Best regards


Wolfgang

[Gerard van der Ham]

Wolfgang, you lost me a bit. I can't follow these measurements, but maybe it doesn't matter so much. I just found out that the influence of shape of matter on gravity can also be calculated and illustrated by common sense. I have to wright a new paper.
I appreciate your efforts.
Gerard

[Gucki]

Hi Gerard,

it's amazing how common sense can sometimes lead us wrong.

For example, the Coulomb force, which is supposed to have either an attractive or repulsive effect.

The repulsive Coulomb force is pure imagination, as Alfsch explained to me six months ago and the measurements confirm. In reality, it is the shielding of an attraction:

The Antigravity on the Lab Bench, viXra.org e-Print archive, viXra:2410.0176

If we can measure, we should measure. Alternatively, we have to believe the mainstream.

If you are still interested in the proposed gravity measurement....

Microgravity Radar, viXra.org e-Print archive, viXra:2304.0173

.....I will be happy to explain it to you the 1-page-paper in more detail. It works without any problems and has already been successfully carried out by many people. From Canada to Poland. You can easily do it yourself and you can use the small, cheap scale in your household anyway.

In any case, I wish you continued success with your research, which I always read with curiosity.

Best regards

Wolfgang